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Post by eyesofmist on Aug 25, 2015 22:42:07 GMT
I have seen these quotes today. They are about Tyrion.
Don't you think he sounds like Aerys? This is what Aerys did,burning people. There are many ways to kill someone if you hate them and you can be extremely cruel without resorting to burning them,but Tyrion imagines burning his father and his sister. Without considering the amount of cruelty and desire for revenge he shows here, what attracts my attention is the idea of burnig and also how he spends hours staring at the flames,pretending they were dragonfire. I think this only makes sense if Tyrion is a Targ. If we add that he is fascinated by dragons and dreams of riding one, I think it's clear. He also refers to himself as a bastard,he says Tywin sees him as a bastard. What George is hiding in plain sight ,and this is not the first time he does this, is that Tyrion is INDEED A bastard, Aery's bastard child.
The second quote isn't as important as the first one in this aspect,but it shows that Tyrion is very cruel,like Aerys was,and also Dany. Dany can be extremely cruel when trying to be just or to retaliate,as her reactions towards Mirry Mazz Dur or the slavers show. She also was cruel and revengeful
It also seems that Sandor can see further than most because he thinks being burned is the right punishment for Tyrion when he believes Tyrion raped Sansa.
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Post by katie on Aug 25, 2015 23:23:03 GMT
Indeed, Sandor says this more than once. He makes a similar remark to Sansa during the BoBW:
Like I said, I'm down with the theory from a narrative sense as pertains to Tyrion's character arc, but if R+L=J is true, and if Young Griff truly is Aegon, then it becomes kind of clichéd to have all these secret Targs running around, ya know? LOL. Still, it's hard to argue with the evidence.
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Post by eyesofmist on Aug 25, 2015 23:41:27 GMT
Yeah, I agree that they seem too many Targs,LOl. I think Aegon is fake,that he may be a Blackfire and so on,but he must be Illyrio's son whose Mother had Valyrian blood as they said. And for me,Jon is a Stark because he behaves like a Stark despite his father's blood. He is more like Ned and Lyanna than like the Targs. He looks like a Stark and behaves like one.
I agree with you that If Dany,Tyrion and Jon are the three riders it'll be cliched,but I'm afraid some of the things that happen will have to be cliched. George used the fatastic genre after all and he can't escape all the tropes,can he?
The irony is that many of us love his novels for what runs deeper than those fantasy tropes he can't escape completely. Perhaps he will find the way to reinvent the tropes, to make them come across in a fresh way. Sometimes what matters is more how you tell a story and not so much what happens as such.
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Post by eyesofmist on Aug 25, 2015 23:41:50 GMT
How are you, by the way? Feeling better?
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Post by katie on Aug 26, 2015 0:55:55 GMT
I am feeling better, thanks. At least I had better be as far as my boss is concerned... ;-P
But yeah, it always annoys me when people assume GRRM won't do something in the books because it would be "too easy" or because he's determined to make everything bleak and unsatisfying, and I'm just like.... YES George does twist and subvert typical fantasy tropes, but he's still telling a story. This is a work of fictional literature, and it would be pretty lame if he spent 20 years of his life writing this brilliant magnum opus only to go out of his way to "piss off" readers or make us "cry" in frustration... ASOIAF is not the show; GRRM actually has a plan and does everything within logic and to tell a good story. He's not in the business of mindless shock value like D&D, and he's not writing a historical biography... He's a fantasy writer, so he's not gonna abandon typical storytelling techniques completely.
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Post by eyesofmist on Aug 26, 2015 5:53:21 GMT
Yes, I agree, telling a good story is what matters, and this doesn't involve decontrusting tropes for the sake of it or just looking for surprised and shock value.
There is still something else about Tyrion's character, mysoginy and rape. He talks about raping Cersei, whom he believes his sister. For any man wanting to rape his own sister and threatening to rape his nephew is beyond shocking but this is what Aerys did, I mean, he raped his wife and sister.
Tyrion has already raped, not his sister, but he raped a prostitute. This may be another hint that he is Aerys' son. This wouldn't be like this in the real word but this is a story and as a story it works. Shock value would consist of surprising the readers with his identity but good story telling is giving signals here and there that something may happen or will happen, but in a sublte way, so that the readers will think the plot was leading in that direction and they suspected it could happen or perhaps they didn't realise despite the clues.
'
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Post by sillierthings on Aug 26, 2015 17:28:58 GMT
Is this any support to the Tyrion is a Targ theory? Coupling within the head of a dragon is mighty evocative of something? At least it seems so to me. I agree that SOME of the tropes must play out. I have more I want to say but I'm on my phone at work...grr
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Post by eyesofmist on Aug 27, 2015 14:51:43 GMT
Sillier-things, you may have to get use to writing posts on your phone, lol. It's much worse than using a computer but better than nothing.
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Post by sillierthings on Aug 27, 2015 17:38:17 GMT
Sillier-things, you may have to get use to writing posts on your phone, lol. It's much worse than using a computer but better than nothing. To quote my favorite non-knight, "bugger that!" Lol. But seriously, I hate posting on my phone. |
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Post by eyesofmist on Aug 28, 2015 2:04:06 GMT
I hate it too, LOl. I understand you very well. I post on my phone quite often though and I make loads of mistakes. It's horrible.XD
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Post by sillierthings on Aug 29, 2015 2:27:34 GMT
Of all the places for Shae and Tyrion to rendezvous, why would Martin write this scene among the skulls of the Tagaryean dragons? Just for atmosphere? Maybe. Shae is playing into Tyrion's need for fantasy, letting him be the monster to savage the girl. Which is what he becomes when he murders Shae. You can see that it rankles him (at least a little) because he asks her if she is calling him a monster. Tyrion likes to fantasize, even if he doesn't admit it to himself, but in his fantasies he is the hero, the defender of maidens and young girls. Shae stands naked in the jaws of the dragon which is rather ominous. Maybe a portent of death? Who kills her...not a dragon, but Tyrion does. The dragon's bastard, perhaps?
Also, Tyrion can't tell the difference between the skulls. One dragon skull looked much like another. Cersei has dwarf heads being sent to her right and left when she offers a reward for Tyrion's head. It seems that one dwarf's head is much like another.
Again, Martin is emphasizing the fact that they have had sex among the dragon skulls. Again, maybe Martin is just going for the ominous atmosphere. Tyrion murders Shae not long after this meeting, but before he does, he makes love to her in a crypt for monsters, where they've played a game of "monsters and maidens." Seems like there should be more to it though.
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Post by sillierthings on Aug 29, 2015 2:35:43 GMT
Just wanted to agree with this. At what point did storytellers (novels, movies, t.v., etc) decide that making their readers/viewers cry and be frustrated was the main goal of the tale? I'm not talking about Greek catharsis or whatever. I'm talking left turns out of no where that just leave you hanging and angry.
Though his associations with D & D have made me doubt somewhat, after reading some of Martin's other novels, I cannot believe he wouldn't have a satisfying resolution to his tale (bittersweet or no). So, yes, some of the tropes are going to play out. Otherwise, it's just cheap shocks and thrills to give braindead people a little jolt in their feels. I don't think he's that kind of writer.
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