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Kylo Ren
Jan 18, 2016 21:44:04 GMT
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Post by eyesofmist on Jan 18, 2016 21:44:04 GMT
Oh, gosh! What have I done! Han was my first movie crush, and it was a huge crush, really. It still is as I never got over that infatuation with Solo and Harrison Ford himself, but more with Han and his "Witness" policeman, oh my God.
Leia and Han were my first OTP and I loved them to pieces, so when I heard that Han would die I asked my son who did the unforgivable. He said he'd better not tell me cause it was a huge spoiler. And what did l answer? 'Tell me, I don' t care. I won't go to see that shitty movie anyway. How did they dare?'
Then I googled the bastard who had done such a heinous action and said, 'This can't be their son, he's fucking ugly!!! No way! And why the hell does he wear a helmet he doesn't need? Why did he kill his dad? Argg.'
My son said, 'Is he ugly? I don't know.' I said he was a bit like Loki, dressed somewhat like him, tall and slender and with long hair, nothing else. Well, and nice broad shoulders, I had to give him that.
I can't believe it because I still have to see the movie on Wednesday, my husband won't be free until then, and without seeing the movie I already have this crazy crush on a supposedly ugly,huge-eared, long-faced young man who has killed my beloved Han and is his son.
What can be worse? I just saw youtube videos where he appears and gosh he plays his role well. Those eyes are incredibly expressive, I love his height, his broad shoulders, his skin and his hair more than I should. Thanks God he was ugly becaue if he was pretty...
And everything can be worse.Now I ship Rey and Kylo, and not Ben, his good part, I like that crush he,as evil Kylo, already has on Ray.Kylo, kinslayer and a sort of terrorist. I'm quite sure there will be romance there, but a tragic one. His tragedy brings Shakespearean or Greek tragedy echoes. I guess he will love like he has killed, with passion and pain, hurting himself to the bone.
And Rey? I don't know. Perhaps she'll never feel attracted to him in any way, but perhaps she may because other option would be anticlimatic, won't have the drama and the repercussion their involvement would have.
A tragic unscapable draw to one another would be epic but perhaps too much for Disney, despite of or perhaps because of, the tragic ending it must have. Hoping something different seems impossible to me. I dig this tragic story where the polar opposites are drawn as much as they are repelled. Well, for the moment, he seems quite besotted and she hates his guts, as she should, but I think we'll see the attraction/repulsion dynamics in the future.
I know this is crazy, I know.
what have I done?
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Post by katie on Jan 19, 2016 5:20:48 GMT
WELCOME TO THE TRASH HEAP!!! Seriously, though, this relationship (and Kylo himself) has so many parallels with SanSan and Sandor, it's hardly surprising to me that so many in the fandom are gravitating towards it. Granted, it's WAY more problematic than SanSan, but there are a lot of thematic similarities. For starters, the looks -- dark hair, dark/grey eyes, large hooked nose, (and something else that I won't mention right now cuz it's kind of a spoiler) etc. Kylo Ren is basically teenage Sandor, lmao. Then there's the theme of the cinnamon roll female who inspires the conflicted asshole to redeem himself -- because you KNOW there's a redemption arc coming for Kylo (even though it'll be too late; there's no way you kill Han Solo and get away alive). Rey is going to bring Kylo/Ben back to the Light, and it's gonna Fuck. Me. Up. So you're seeing it on Wednesday for the first time?? I'm seeing it on Wednesday for the 4th time, haha! Very curious to hear your impressions. It's so funny how many people are already crushing on Kylo and shipping Reylo before they even see the film! BUT SERIOUSLY LOOK AT THIS PRECIOUS GARBAGE BABY
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Kylo Ren
Jan 19, 2016 7:09:19 GMT
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Post by eyesofmist on Jan 19, 2016 7:09:19 GMT
Is it worthy to watch it 3D? What do you think? Tomorrow I'll go to see the movie at last and I'm looking forward to sharing impressions after really watching it. I know I'll love this guy as Kylo though. I've even seen 4 chapters of 'Girls' and he's great. He has such a powerful physical presence combined with a disarming sensitivity! He was casted looking for certain qualities the actor has, he didn't go to castings or anything and he also had the nerve to doubt If he wanted to play the role for a while, it seems. He's great. So they wanted that combination of powerful and pysically intimidating with real acting chops and weird looks that are able to grow on watchers much more deeply than your classical pretty boy. They wanted someone fucking different, capable to inspire revulsion and then unexpected attraction when you least expect it like the guy he plays in Girls.There I found him sexy inmediately despite the kinky things he did but I wasn't ready for his puppy eyes and the sweet kisses he gave Hannah when she said she didn't want to see him any more cause he was toxic for her. He was irresistible in such an unexpected way! I guess this is why they cast him instead of a Hemswort type traditionally attractive guy.
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Post by eyesofmist on Jan 19, 2016 14:06:21 GMT
I agree it's really strange but in my case it's because of the videos. I usually avoid them but I decided not to see the film when I saw a comment on Han's death. As there was nothing to loose I saw some videos out of curiosity and with a prejudice to dislike Kylo's character for every imaginable reason. But when I saw that scene with him carrying Rey bridal style, the interrogation scene and part of the final duel I couldn't not ship them. Perhaps we can expect unrequitted love on his side or maybe one of those frighteningly passionate dynamics where the characters are attracted to each other against their better judgement but can't help it, no matter what.
Kylo is Greek tragedy material because of the conflict inside him, how he's carried away by passion and perhaps fate, at least the fate potentially threatening someone with such extraordinary ancestors as his, and because of the magnitude, the enormity of what he did.
I don't think they chose to create such a rich character for nothing or that they, for no reason,used tropes to highlight these two are "big" enough, remarkable enough for each other, and their chemistry cries sensualiy and potential tragic romance at its best. The other guys aren't enough for a girl meant to become a hero. Ordinary guys don' t do for her narratively speaking despite their charm or good looks. As for their looks, I think they are too normal, they made them seem too normal for a character like Rey's. She has to get something grand and out of the ordinary, otherwise we will feel deflated. Kylo fits the bill because he is as extraordinay as her, so I think it would be a huge mistake if they didn't go for Raylo, full force.
By the way, what about thar sword of his, different from all the rest, red and looking so phalic it isn't even funny. It looks more like a medieval sword a knight templar would use. Knights themplar were warrior monks and left everything, family, home and the prospect of fathering children for their order. And they were killers, they killed in the name of God, going to the Crusades to fight a holy war against the so called infidels.
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Post by katie on Jan 19, 2016 18:21:23 GMT
Oh yes, Kylo's sword.... just as much phallic symbolism as Sandor's sword, I promise! Ha!
And that is an interesting point about all the other men in TFA being too "normal" for Rey. While I don't believe Reylo will be endgame (and she'll most likely end up with Finn), I do think there will be some more business between her and Kylo. In fact, I think she might even decide to join him on the Dark Side, but only temporarily. And at that point he will be so smitten with her that he might decide that his "mission" isn't worth it without her and abandon the Dark Side as well.
They will most definitely be equals in terms of power -- they are two sides of the same coin -- but I don't think they'll be equals in their feelings for each other. I just don't think Rey will ever fully trust him nor will she get over his killing Han. But she will definitely feel drawn to him, and their Force-bond will keep them forever linked.
As for Adam Driver, I only had a very vague idea to him prior to TFA, but I will admit that his casting as the villain was my primary reason for wanting to see this. It was just such an UNUSUAL choice, but one that I was totally on-board with. And he just knocked it out of the park. I've seen a few scenes from "Girls" since then, and yeah, he definitely has dat charisma, though I've never been particularly interested in watching "Girls" and I'm still not, LOL. (Though I hear he's naked a lot, so maybe...??)
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Kylo Ren
Jan 19, 2016 18:44:19 GMT
via mobile
Post by eyesofmist on Jan 19, 2016 18:44:19 GMT
In the chapters I watched he never wears a shirt, LOL. I saw 4 chapters and no shirt, ever, haha.
I didn't know this actor and when I saw the pictures on the internet I thought he looked weird and ugly. How wrong I was, the more I look at him the more I like him. Pretty is boring more often than not and he is the opposite, mesmerising and sexy against all odds.
What is important is that he is very good as an actor and his weird looks just make you look at him even more. He has charisma. They went for him for reasons, they wanted that strength and unusual charm for Kylo's character.
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Post by katie on Jan 19, 2016 19:16:02 GMT
I wonder, then, if Sandor doesn't look kind of Adam Driver-esque? His features are described very similarly to Driver's, and Sansa does refer to Sandor as "ugly" but he obviously grows on her, so maybe it's the same sort of thing -- Sandor seems "ugly", but the combined package, much like A.Driver, makes him so much more attractive and sensual??
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Post by sillierthings on Jan 21, 2016 15:14:01 GMT
I'm dying to know what you thought of the movie, eyesofmist? Add me to the trash heap because I love Kylo Ren. I went into the movie, like eyesofmist, expecting to hate him because of what he did to Han, but I found I wasn't even that bothered! Isn't that terrible? Part of it is that Han just looked so old, so tired...it was almost a mercy to see him not have to play to cocky smuggler any more. I would have preferred less wise-cracking Han and more Han as a father. Hmm....perhaps that's what Ben Solo wanted too? But yes, I think you are both right that Sandor must come across like this...ugly, but then the personality, the sensuality, the charisma comes through and suddenly, he's transformed in your eyes. I didn't really know who Adam Driver was, but when I found out he was in "Girls," I said, NOPE! Sorry, I cannot with Lena Dunham. But then...oh then. It really is like when I first hated the Hound because he was a child murdering servant of the Lannisters. How could I like a Han Solo-murdering kisser of Lena Dunham...but here I am, once again .
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Post by katie on Jan 21, 2016 16:04:26 GMT
You're so right, because just simply saying "Han Solo is murdered by Kylo Ren, who is also his son" is just SO simplistic. When you actually watch the scene, you can see all the nuance, Kylo's struggle with "Ben", and how he doesn't seem satisfied at ALL by his actions. Shit, even Han couldn't be mad at him -- caressing his cheek tenderly before falls to his (presumed) death. And the whole convo leading up to it -- Snoke is basically the Littlefinger of TFA, manipulating and brainwashing his protege (though a lot more successfully... hell yeah, Sansa!). Ben Solo is clearly a victim too. It's not so black and white here, and I LOVE that! But I mean, even Darth Freaking Vader eventually had a redemption arc, for R'hllor's sake! LOL! This series has never been perfectly black & white -- the running theme of all the movies is the "balance" between good and evil, and how some people toe that line very precariously. Kylo not only toes it, he trips over it repeatedly, LOL.
JJ Abrams has stated that this series is not only about the evolution of a hero, but the evolution of a villain too. And Kylo isn't really a villain (anymore) so much as he's an antagonist, and it's abundantly clear that he will be getting a redemption arc too. SIGH.
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Post by katie on Jan 21, 2016 16:19:02 GMT
Oh and I agree with you about Lena Dunham, I can't with her either, which is why I have avoided that show like the Pale Mare since it's been on. I did, however, watch a few clips on YouTube the other night, and I was just like "UUGGGHHHH A-Drive why would you waste your preciousness on HER??" And then I remember, oh yeah because that's precisely the way she wrote it. ;-P
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Post by eyesofmist on Jan 21, 2016 16:51:32 GMT
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Post by eyesofmist on Jan 21, 2016 17:25:14 GMT
I love Han Solo, and I found him very attractive, I love his silver hair and those wrinkles that made him look human and lived, not some sort of Holliwood star crazy for bottox and unable to part with his youth, trying to make it last at the cost of turning himself into a sort of wax doll. But Adam Driver, oh my God! I can't say enough. That secene on the gangway where father and son meet was the best of the film, incredibly beautiful, both of their faces showing so much, pain, feelings,so much hurt.
Adam looks beautiful in that scene. He is so weird-looking that can look ugly one moment and unbearably beautiful in another,and here he does look beautiful. How can death look so beautiful, I wonder? And there's so much love in Han,he probably wasn't the father Ben needed,nor Leia was the mother he needed either, but they did love him very much, so much that Han gave up his life, I think he gave it up on that gangway and that Kylo is a man on a mission, not a power crazy guy, a psycho without feelings or someone who revels in evil, I think he gave up his live too for some mysterious reason, he sold his hope, his soul and everything he was by doing what he did, but he thought he had to do it. He gave himself to the dark and will never have respite because he won't be able to smother his wish for light and his need of it. I think he is in a living hell now.
He talks to his father like Jesus did during his last night on earth, as if saying, ' Father, remove this chalice from me.' But already knowing that he can't, that he must do what he must do, although it will destroy him. I think Han understands to some extent.
By this, I'm not saying what he did,here or in the village wasn't horrible but that he thinks he is doing what is right,not out of desire to be evil. So, he may be brainwashed completely, like a religious zealot fighting a "holy" war and thinking this is his duty, or he may be hiding something. Perhaps "finishing what you started", what he says to Vader, is not becoming the most powerful in the galaxy through the force, but fighting the Dark side with its own weapons, which only can be done from inside, by learning which weapons they have, how the Dark Side works. But the final goal must be finding balace for the two sides of the force and nobody has been able to do that on his own, neither Vader nor Luke, one from the Dark Side and the other from the Light. That can only be achived in tandem, so he needs Ray to find balance and completion, only that way there will be equilibrium. They are night and day,dark and light, separated by a chasm,literally, like day and night that can't stay together but for a few moments at dawn and dusk but are condemned to be linked, because there would be no days without them.
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Post by sillierthings on Jan 21, 2016 17:33:14 GMT
That is a good comparison! It makes sense to me that there are B & B parallels (and consider that so many Sansan fans find this relationship compelling adds to that).
While I feel like Sansa and Sandor MUST consummate their relationship in a romantic way, I think I'd find Rey and Kylo a good match platonically. So, if they are cousins, I'm absolutely okay with that because it's that soul connection that is most fascinating and doesn't have to be sexual. Though if she's Obi Wan's granddaughter, all the better!
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Post by katie on Jan 21, 2016 17:54:18 GMT
eyesofmist, I'll read your Belle/Rey piece in a minute but just wanted to comment on this first:
So, squidproquo-ink and I went to see this AGAIN last night (my 4th time, her 7th!), and afterwards, we were talking about this scene and how it just gets more and more heartbreaking every time I see it. Then we were half-joking about how it had probably been YEARS since Han had seen Ben, so when he removed his helmet, he was probably expecting that same dorky-looking kid but was pleasantly surprised to see OH, he turned out pretty well, thank GOD! LMAO!
But in all seriousness, I find it fascinating how Ben/Kylo looks from both Rey's and Han's perspective. In the interrogation scene, Kylo is smoldering and intimidating; she has to resist looking at him (like Sansa with Sandor, anyone?). Like the audience, she was probably expecting some hideous (and old) creature and was surprised to see a very good-looking young man.
Compare that to when he takes his helmet off for Han -- he looks rather adolescent. He looks like a pouty little kid playing dress-up. The physical AND metaphorical mask is off, you know what I mean? Both A-Drive and JJ had a real knack for knowing how to frame his face at certain times. Like, he looks like a little kid again in the scene with Snoke right after the interrogation. And in the final fight scene in the forest, he somehow manages to look both intimidating AND childlike??? Whoa! THIS IS WHY I AM HERE, GUYS. lol
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Post by eyesofmist on Jan 21, 2016 18:45:40 GMT
I didn't mean that they have anything to do with Beauty and the Beast, but that they have shot the scenes in the same way. One scene reminded me of the other, just that,without looking for implications, I just think the resemblance is too clear to be a coincidence, although the stories are completely different.
If they are cousins it won't work for me, I guess, too many Skywalkers,I think it's more dramatic if Kylo is the last of the Mohicans, so to speak and Rey is a Kenobi, or perhaps nobody, like she says in the trailer, or even a descendant of Palpatine or some other sith lord, that would be epic.
I don't think she is Luke's, because Luke, like Ned Stark, is to honourable to have broken his celibacy vow, and also because the seer,that strange woman in the green planet told Rey nobody would come back for her,which means her family are dead already. She told her there was nobody in her future but there's a future for her, what matters is the future.
They may decide Luke is her father, but if he is, what the seer said makes no sense.
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