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Post by eyesofmist on Jan 21, 2016 19:00:57 GMT
I love what you said here. The link I added doesn't have many words, it contains gifs and images taken from the movie,from the secene where Ray sees his face for the first time and how he looks like a dashing prince, although one with unusual looks. As you said, the director knew very well how to frame his face to convey one message or another, to cause different impressions. In that post I commented on that. I'd like to hear your opinion. Was this made on purpose or is it just a casuality? I mean,the framing, how he present his face, the lightning,her reaction, the framing for her face and so on.
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Post by eyesofmist on Jan 21, 2016 19:31:02 GMT
Both of you commented that Adam could have been a very good Sandor, and I agree. He has the height and the physicality needed for that,but I don't imagine Sandor looking like him, not because I don't like him, on the contrary, I adore his weird looks. The more I look at him, the more I like his features. But I don't think Sandor looked weird,I imagine him with square jaw, very angular,very harsh-featured. I think he could have been attractive for some women if he wasn't so badly disfigured. Adam's face isn't harsh, he seems strong but his eyes look sweet,sometimes they may even look delicate and his mouth is so sensitive, it makes him seem vulnerable and appealing, sexy, at the same time. Adam is Sandor's age more or less, several years older than him in the first book actually, but he is able to look much younger,he has that baby face you talked about, Katie. I guess Sandor didn't have a baby face at 28. Those guys who laughed when they saw Adam's face in the movie whould have been happy with a face like Sandor's (even without the burns, although they'd love the burns)because they didn't want someone with a sensitive face. They wanted him badsass,like they put it,unmoving and downright evil, powerful. They complain he lost to Ray and that makes him a wimp,but it's false, he never tried to hurt her, he just wanted to take her with him. And he was very badly wounded. Chewie's weapeon was shown to be deadly,what is a miracle is that he didn't collapse and faint but continued fighting. Adam looks are fascinating because he can convey akwardness but also can scare the shit out of you. He can look pretty or dorky, dashing or silly. His face is unique, you can't achieve all this with a face like Chris Hemsworth's for isntance, that's the disadvantage of looking so conventionally pretty. Adam looks odd, but he is damn attractive, much more than your typical pretty boy. I have never seen a male actor with more beautiful hair, and his eyes and mouth are also really fine,but it's true that his long face and big ears should make him look ugly,but they can't, LOL. My husband said he had very ugly ears,LOL.That his hair was long to hide that, and I said that hair was really beautiful, he agreed on that. Even guys appreaciate that hair of his
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Post by katie on Jan 21, 2016 19:58:26 GMT
It's interesting to note that, in the final script, it's written that Rey is "shocked" when she sees his face... though it doesn't state WHY. In the actual film, I notice that, after their initial eye contact, she consciously tries not to look at him. I imagine she does this because she senses that those intense eyes of his can see right through her (and they can), and yet she's still so tempted to look at him. Of course, once she finally does lock in on him, she comes to realize that she can see right through HIM as well! Mmmmmm!
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Post by katie on Jan 21, 2016 20:01:15 GMT
Regarding A-Drive looking like Sandor, yeah, I mean, in a very basic sense in terms of how Sandor's features are described in the book (even eye color -- Adam Driver's aren't so much brown as they are a kind of greenish-gray). But moreso I'm talking about the idea of them initially seeming "ugly" or "weird" looking but then growing on you once you take the whole package into account, LOL.
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Post by eyesofmist on Jan 21, 2016 20:48:59 GMT
Well, my interpretation has never been that he was ugly or weird-looking,Ned or Sansa never describe him as ugly or something,they just say his face is horribly burned, Ned diescribes a horribly burned face. When asked, George said Sandor would have looked average withougt the scars, not ugly, not even plain or weird. So I imagine him with those angular features George describes,and fierce eyes, not sensitive, like Adams. And he surely doesn't have lips like Adam's either. Adam's face isn't harsh,in my view, it's weird but not harsh. Looks aren't the only thing either and acting is what matters,so I believe he could be a great Sandor, whith the right voice, strenght and towering height. I wouldn't complain if show Sandor had a beautiful sensitive mouth,gosh no. In fact, I don't expect anything but garbage from the show but AD would make a great Sandor for sure,he can look dangerous if he likes, and he could also make us cry with his dying scene so easily.
By the way,Kylo has problems with anger and rage, like Sandor, I wonder what happened to him, or what he thinks happened to him to be so embittered and angry.
I guess he was brainwashed by Snoke when he was a kid,young people are easier to deceive and corrupt than adults,they are especially vulnerable.
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Post by katie on Jan 21, 2016 22:26:58 GMT
Oh gosh yes I NEED to know how Ben Solo went from being Han and Leia's sweet little boy to the Poster Boy for the Dark Side. I did note, though, that Leia indicated that the REASON they sent Ben to Luke in the first place was BECAUSE, as Han said, "There's too much Vader in him." So Ben seemed to have exhibited problems even before they sent him to Jedi School? Or maybe it was just regular kid stuff they didn't understand which they chose to interpret as "too much Vader in him"? Maybe they weren't actually great parents to begin with, so when Ben started acting out as a result, instead of trying to help him they just sent him away?
I can't bring myself to believe that Kylo is just "innately evil". The bridge scene seemed to disprove that definitively. This kid doesn't WANT to be evil (I keep saying "kid", but Kylo is actually supposed to be like 29, LOL), but he clearly doesn't think he has any other choice here. WHY?? What did Snoke do or say to him?? What does he find so noble and aspirational about Darth Vader?? Was it something Luke did? Han said that Luke "blamed himself"... did he have a legitimate reason to??
I NEED ANSWERS!!!!
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Post by eyesofmist on Jan 21, 2016 22:47:12 GMT
Me too, LOL, but we'll have to wait a lot!
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Kylo Ren
Jan 22, 2016 0:32:53 GMT
via mobile
Post by eyesofmist on Jan 22, 2016 0:32:53 GMT
Why do you think Rey met Kylo Ren in a planet where nature was luxurious and green? She was impressed by that , she didn't even know a place like that exixted? Why making these both meet there, in a forest in the sun and completely alone? Theirs was a diffrent game from everyone else 's at that point and he took her to his ship ignoring the battle, the droid etc because they/he claimed he had everything he needed. They meet in a green forest and part in another one, a desolate stormy night. I think this means something. Any ideas?
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Post by eyesofmist on Jan 26, 2016 22:16:03 GMT
This is what Kylo says to Snoke when the leader tells him the droid and the girl are with Han Solo and that he'll have to face a test the likes of which, not even himself as master of the knights of Ren has ever faced. Then he goes to that sort of shrine where he keeps his gandfather's helmet and begs forgivenes because he feels the pull to the light (again).
Seduced is the workd he uses,that he won't be seduced,thanks to Snoke's training. And Rey means ray of light and feels the force in its Light side.Kylo is dressed like a monk,hood, long robe and all, he doesn't show his face except to Rey, Han and Snoke (he didn't want Hux to see his face either when they were both talking to Snoke). Also, his clothes conceal as much skin as possible,covering his hands with gloves and his neck to his jaw,which seems too much. It's what a monk would wear, even the draping round his neck resembles the ones some monks wear. Kylo braces and protects himself against seduction from the Light side, in any possible form. When Rey entered his mind he was shocked and run away as if being chased by the hounds of hell, as if he feared contact and intimacy. He is totally closed, ready to reject being touched by anything and even those clothes reflect that.
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Post by katie on Jan 27, 2016 1:49:15 GMT
What's interesting is that the term "seduced" is used TWICE in the movie with regards to Kylo -- once by Kylo himself in the line you quoted, and another by his mother with regards to how Snoke lured him to the Dark Side. I have to think that must be intentional. There is certainly a "sexual predator" vibe from Snoke, and if we are to believe that there is romantic potential with Rey, then the term being used by Kylo to describe his turning back to the Light is appropriate there as well. And yes, his clothing might be indicative of this as well; perhaps the more he sheds the dark, the more he'll shed clothing (*wink wink*)...
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Kylo Ren
Jan 27, 2016 23:04:47 GMT
via mobile
Post by eyesofmist on Jan 27, 2016 23:04:47 GMT
Yeah, it's very intersting. I'd never thought of Snoke as a sexual predator but he has these two young men, Kylo and Hux,at his beck and call and Kylo seems very repressed, those clothes are shouting 'don't anyone touch me, because I'll kill them and then crumble."It seems too dark for a Disney movie, but it may be only hinted at and never adressed. They use all this subtle hints at sensualiy in Kylo, using the word seduced twice ( he says he'll seduce the pull, the power of seduction, of the light. Then we have him bride carrying Ray and then and that interrogation scene where he says things likem: You know I can take whatever I want? Give it to me Don't be afraid, I can feel it too
Well, if I didn't know better I'd think this is a sexy scene instead of what it really is, especially if we consider the sultry tone of voice he uses and the intensity with which he looks at her. There are also the sounds they make,especially him. He's literally trembling at the end of the scene. I know it' s feat what makes him shiver but they are playing with the viewers using all these references that shouldn't belong in a scene where seduction is out of place. All the shipping comes from something and the writers have achieved exactly what they wanted. Most men don't get it but most women do. Girls don't usually like sci fi as much as guys but here we have a lot of women watching the movie several times. If it wasn't for the emotional component of the story girls wouldn't go to see it three times, I guess. So they nailed it, LOL.
As for Finn x Poe, I'm with you, they are also playing with that, especially when Poe runs towards Finn and before they hug, he looks at him in a ctvery seductive way. That must have been intentional in the director's part. I don't know how far they'll go with a gay romance but perhaps they will, why not? At lest they can suggest it subtly. The people who wouldn' t like are usually the one's that only pick up the most obvious things that are spelt out for them.
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Post by eyesofmist on Feb 6, 2016 20:00:15 GMT
I've seen the whole first season of HBO Girls show and a couple of chapters of the second season. I like the show in general but Adam Driver is amazing there,amazing. We know that JJ Abrahams chose him for the role of Kylo and went for him, so there were no castings, JJ knew what he was looking for. What Adam's character on 'Girls' has is this weirde vibe,this isolated misfit who doesn't know how to behave around people. He isn't only detached from Hannah, the main character,who is her sexual partner,but also is really ackward around people in general. He is no good a "boyfriend" and just has sex whenever she comes to his apartment and never ever texts her back later. He should suck,he's keen on weird sex and apparently completely self-centered but,he manages to come across as endearing with hardly any effort on his part. He may seem dangerous,crazy,very agressive and nothing like the kind of boy you'd bring home to have tea with you parents but, there's more to him than meets the eye. He falls in love and commits to that love in a way not many people do. So, he can be a horrible person and do horrible things, but he can also be sensitive and sweet and he does fall in love and he falls hard.
Well, I guess this is very much what JJ wanted for Kylo,he wanted someone who could look threatening,intimidating and dangerous, looming over people with his impressive height,but who also could convey vulnerability,pain,internal conflic, isolation and inadequacy. And an important part of Adam's character on Girls is his his approach to sex and love. If they just wanted a generic cardboard baddy or an evil character without nuances they wouldn't have chosen Adam Driver, who is a terrific actor, by the way. They could have chosen some tall muscled guy with a deep voice and made him hide his face behind that mask like for ever. JJ went for something completely different, for a character as torn as Hamlet,someone who hesitates and seems a big baby one moment and a cold blooded killer the next.He even talks to that half melted mask like Hamlet talked to the skull.
Kylo is meant to be complicated, really complex, and Driver can do that like a boss. And he can show he's suffering so much, or that he is madly in love, just with his eyes,without needing a single word. I bet we'll those eyes of his looking at Ray that way and know he's fallen real hard for her. If the writers don't make the most of the potential of an impossible doomed love in this saga, they'll make a terrible mistake,and I don't think they will.
Kylo is doomed and he will make Rey suffer with his love because loving him back feels utterly wrong after all the horrible things he's done. If they become star-crossed lovers,it would be sad but it would also be beautiful for the viewers to see. It would be epic,deep and controversial, it would bring more tension and conflict to the plot,but this is exactly what good fictional love stories are made of. This is something I really would like to see.
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Post by katie on Feb 12, 2016 4:00:45 GMT
I watched an indie film the other day that A-Drive stars in called 'Hungry Hearts'; not a great movie by any stretch, but he is PHENOMENAL in it. It's worth watching just for him alone (thankfully, he's in just about every scene, so you won't get bored, LOL).
I agree that JJ cast A-Drive for a very specific reason, and it wasn't to just have him stomp around and look "emo". Kylo Ren/Ben Solo is meant to be something more, something we haven't seen in a "villain" character in a mainstream movie perhaps ever. Like you said, if they don't make the most of this GIFT they have in this amazing actor, then it'll be a real damn shame and a pitiful waste.
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Kylo Ren
Feb 14, 2016 4:03:36 GMT
via mobile
Post by eyesofmist on Feb 14, 2016 4:03:36 GMT
I was going to tell you to watch "Hungry Hearts", LOL, because I saw the film too and he was incredible, I agree with you. He got the Venice Film Festival best actor award for that film, by the way. And yes, if Abrahams wanted him for the role, as it seems, he must have known what he wanted in someone like him, a terrific actor.
In that movie he seems so natural that you never have the impresion that he is acting. When he laughs, it feels real, and when he cries or is sad, the same. It was also shocking how he could convey violence and danger, like when he slapped Mia, or Mina, or when he pushed her against a piece of furniture to grab the baby. "He can be dangerous, very dangerous", make no mistake, this is what that last scene conveys, when he pushes her like that.
The guy is an incredible contrast, with that vulnerable awkward vibe he exudes, and then that physicality, which makes it clear he may be very dangerous indeed, just in the blink of an eye. He could have taken the baby with less violence, for instance. When I saw that scene I was shocked at how violent it was.
In a way, this is what kylo is about, the boyish young man with expressive eyes, soft hair you really would like to touch, and sensitive lips so many young boys feel uncomfortable about when he unmasks, baring such humanity and falibility or even weakness. And on the other hand, the tall (cause he is very tall, making Han Solo look 'small' and frail in comparison), physically powerful man, whose physicality is like a constant reminder of how powerful he is, both because he is force sensitive and also because he is so physically imposing, towering over most. On Girls you can see how shredded ( haha, Matt) he is, although the black robes hide this making him look so slimin TFA. He may seem dangerous very easily, because his body looks like a sportsman's, not like one of those pretty actors whose bodies look as if they work out to look nice rather than for being really capable of lifting real weights or running real distances. His acting is the same and just as he looks capable of bashing most people's asses, he also may seem genuinely vulnerable, dangerous, derailed or confused, or anything else. All these qualoties are great for a character like Kylo Ren, so they must have chosen him for a reason. Kylo is a mystery and in Driver's hands, with a good director, they can make anything believable, as long as it makes sense, of course.
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Kylo Ren
Feb 14, 2016 5:43:55 GMT
via mobile
Post by eyesofmist on Feb 14, 2016 5:43:55 GMT
eyesofmist.tumblr.com/post/139178570909/ms-qualia-veniThis is where he sings in Italian. It was so nice to hear him singing, such a beautiful voice, LOL. Jude really loved Mina, but he was also ruthless, because he made his best, and succeded, to imprgnste her when she clearly told him not to "finish" inside her. He didn't wanted to lose here and I think he did that on purpose hoping to make her stay, so Jude wasn't as sweet and nice as he seemed. Later he was endearing but that move was really nasty to say the least. So Adam can portray characters that give completely diferent impressions depending on the circumstances. He could have made a typical baddy, looking menacing and badass if they had wanted that from him but it is obvious they wanted something else. There may be interesting twists in the plot that will show why they wanted someone with real acting chops and not the effective tough baddie many dudebros would have preferred. Dudebros don't like his vulnerability, they wanted him to stay badass and masked until he faced his father and some even said he should have looked indifferent when he killed Han, which seems crazy to me, because it makes zero sense. To some extent, I can understand why people don't want to empathise with a patricide and murderer, bacuse this is very uncomfortable. I wanted to hate him and also find him disgusting, but I couldn't because of the acting. I felt pity for both father and son instead and this made me feel confused and uncomfortable later. Kylo really believes he is doing the right thing and when someone does such horrible things really believing he must do them or that they are justified my take is always to despise them and feel utterly disgusted. The problem is that in a supposedly uncomplicated movie they made us see the human side of a killer, and what shocks us more, a patricide, which made me feel sorry for someone I really would have preferred to hate. That's why I'd be grateful if they could find powerful reasons for his actions and also redemptive aspects, not bacause he is cute, which he is, by the way, but because there is no way I want to feel empathic and protective of a murderer and political or religious fanatic, which is more or less what he seems, rather the last option, in his case, I think, if being force senstive and comitted to the Dark side can be seen as similar to being trapped in some sort of quasi "religious" cult. That's why I said the character feels too complucated for Disney, because if he is bad and this is clear, he would be like any other Disney bad guy, some of whom are memorable but don't take you off your comfort zone. Kylo, on the other hand, made me very uneasy because he reminds me too much of those young religious fanatics who do the most execrable acts without thinking they are evil, but believing their "cause" is just and they are some sort of heroes. And Kylo is most complicated because he can't really justify his actions and thus suffers so much knowing what he is doing is all wrong, no matter what reasons he may have to justify these actions in his own mind. The silly overused motive, " absolute power, ruling the world/galaxy", would make everthing crumble for me, I hope they find something better. Someone like Kylo could very easily end up taking his own life due to psycholigical pain and guilt. In fact he is absolutely reckless and self destructive if not suicidal, that last duel shows that, the guy thrives on pain. He didn't even look angy when Rey wounded him, disfigued him and left him to die there like a rabid dog, as if, deep inside he welcomed all that, as he deserved it, which he did, of course.
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