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Post by katie on Feb 22, 2015 19:52:58 GMT
I know this is kind of a “controversial” topic… Some people would love it, others are wary of it. Personally, I kinda feel like it’s due -- even just a one-off -- and I think GRRM is a talented enough writer to make it work without ruining The Sandor Mystique™.
Anyway, I'm interested in knowing what you guys feel about this and why you would be for or against it?
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Post by sillierthings on Feb 23, 2015 19:36:22 GMT
I would love reading Sandor's thoughts, but on the other hand, I don't think I'd be heartbroken if we never got it. It could ruin a little of the mystique, but I don't think so.
I'm going to be super nerdy and go back to "Beauty and the Beast," the show with Ron Perlman and Linda Hamilton. We saw things from Vincent's point of view, heard him confess his thoughts and feelings to "Father" (not unlike Elder Brother, eh?), but he was still a shaggy, cat beast with claws of death. So, yeah, I think Martin could make it work.
However, I don't need it because I think seeing him from Sansa's perspective helps us appreciate what she sees in him, how their relationship grows. I don't know that I need his love or his crushing cynicism described in any more detail because he's already been pretty dang clear about what he's feeling and thinking. His soliloquies to Sansa are detailed, poetic, full of emotion. We don't have a chapter P.O.V. from him, this is true. But when he does speak of himself, he speaks at length so it's almost as if he's getting a mini-p.o.v., at least in Sansa's chapters. And with Sandor, actions speak even more loudly than words, and both Arya and Sansa are very detailed in how he acts around them.
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Post by katie on Feb 23, 2015 20:20:35 GMT
Yes, this is a good point, a Sandor POV would be more or less unnecessary because he's pretty dang forthcoming to begin with, LOL. I wouldn't be terribly upset if we never did get a POV from him, but I think it would be cool to get a "Gravedigger" chapter, written in a same semi-vague vein as one of Arya's Braavos chapters. I'd like to see some of what is going on with him on the QI and then go back to seeing him through Sansa's eyes.
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Post by bgona on Feb 23, 2015 22:00:24 GMT
Maybe he will write it, but I think that later. And maybe with another name, not Sandor, as Reek, Alayne and all Arya´s alias. But I really believe that if he writes his POV then it will lead to his death.
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maidenpools
Junior Member
hyped for a re-read!!
Posts: 50
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Post by maidenpools on Feb 23, 2015 23:05:30 GMT
I agree with kate - a vague, abstract chapter would be interesting to receive in the interim between The Hound and Sandor. As someone who likes to write fic, I enjoy getting inside the heads of characters we don't typically get to explore, particularly from the third-person limited point of view Martin typically uses. This perspective is particulary enjoyable because it doesn't totally ruin the mystique of the characters - we don't know *every*thing they think - we just get to view the world through their personal lens, so to speak - the details they notice in the world around them are filtered through their pov, so we notice what they notice, and maybe begin to understand what it means to them. Like you all said - we get a sort of series of mini-povs for Sandor within Sansa's chapters, and although it would be awesome to have a full-blown chapter for Sandor, we can get by without one.
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Post by katie on Feb 23, 2015 23:35:24 GMT
Yes exactly, I would like to get a glimpse into Sandor's "transformation" - to see a little bit of his struggles with becoming a better man, getting over his hang-ups about Gregor/seeing the futility of a life lived for hatred and vengeance (a major theme in the books already), and contemplating his future. (And any vague references to a "little bird" he left behind wouldn't hurt either, heh.) Yes, we can infer much of this based on Brienne's QI chapter and the things EB tells her, but I think Sandor deserves a few pages of his own at this point. You know, that's not the first time someone has brought that up, and it intrigues me that so many people seem to assume that a POV chapter portends a character's inevitable demise. From what I have observed, this primarily only applies to Prologue/Epilogue POV characters. Other minor/one-off POV characters, with the exception of Arys Oakheart and Quentyn Martell, seem to be hanging in there (so far)? All the Greyjoys are still alive, Barristan the Badass, Areo Hotah, Jon Connington, etc. I don't think one Sandor/Gravedigger chapter will mean his death. I think it could act as an interesting bridge between The Hound and New & Improved™ Sandor Clegane.
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Post by sillierthings on Feb 24, 2015 0:05:10 GMT
A chapter showing the transformation or gentling of the Hound is something I would be up for. The Hound is dead, but here comes Sandor, reborn and better than ever . Oh, gosh, my heart would melt if I turned the page and saw a chapter entitled "Sandor." It would be the very opposite of the way my heart lurched with I realized Sansa's chapter was called "Alayne." Okay, now I want it. I want a Sandor chapter. I'd be happy with Gravedigger (I like your comparison to Arya's chapter, Katie) but yes, I want "Sandor."
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Post by eyesofmist on Feb 24, 2015 1:47:21 GMT
Why do you thing George decided not to give him a POV when other characters like Damphair have one and they don't seem more important than him? Perhaps to keep Sansa and Sandor's romance in the shadows? She is very reserved but he isn't and what he feels would be too clear much earlier.
I love the way we get to know so much about him through serveral character's eyes, so I'm not sure whether it would be better or worse to have a POV chapter for him. The way he is portrayed feels like getting to know him ourselves,as if we were Arya,Sansa or Ned and could interact with him. His characterization is very well done and we know him like we know people in real life, without getting into their heads. I feel curious though, his head must be an interesting mess. That giant of a man who is such a romantic at heart must have interesting thoughts.
Anyway, for me the most interesting question is why, why did George decide not to write a Sandor's POV chapter? Any thoughts?
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maidenpools
Junior Member
hyped for a re-read!!
Posts: 50
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Post by maidenpools on Feb 24, 2015 1:57:49 GMT
Sandor is one of the most developed secondary characters and has interacted with a lot of different pov characters, much like Jorah. I feel like they are the two secondary characters we have gotten to know best through the eyes of multiple characters and I really enjoy all their various interactions.
Considering their importance to Sansa and Dany's plotlines (the two people most important to them who they were separated from by rejection), respectively, I feel like GRRM has something big planned for them - he's put them on journeys and had them interact with many other characters before reuniting them with Sansa and Dany. Perhaps he's been trying to build up tension and intrigue until then, whether or not he will ever give them their own POV chapters.
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Post by eyesofmist on Feb 24, 2015 2:19:59 GMT
Interesting idea, perhaps there is something really important waiting for them. I had never thought Jorah and Sandor had too much in common but you are right, there is a certain parallesim between these two men. Jorah is the knight who didn't behave honourably and Sandor the non-knight who proved more honourable than most, both were the winners at a tourney and in a way,they both won their lady's hearts and in a tourney (Jora's wife and Sansa), both were rejected as you have said and both followed a different path when they left, Jorah to a life of debauchery and despondency (poor guy)while Sandor is going the opposite direction,it seems.
I think you are into something and these two still have to play a really important role as two contrasting approaches to chivalry (another would be Jaime, and also Brienne) as well as that of two men deeply in love with a woman they cannot have,or so it seems for the moment. Really interesting.
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Post by katie on Feb 24, 2015 3:32:01 GMT
Why do you thing George decided not to give him a POV when other characters like Damphair have one and they don't seem more important than him? Perhaps to keep Sansa and Sandor's romance in the shadows? She is very reserved but he isn't and what he feels would be too clear much earlier. I love the way we get to know so much about him through serveral character's eyes, so I'm not sure whether it would be better or worse to have a POV chapter for him. The way he is portrayed feels like getting to know him ourselves,as if we were Arya,Sansa or Ned and could interact with him. His characterization is very well done and we know him like we know people in real life, without getting into their heads. I feel curious though, his head must be an interesting mess. That giant of a man who is such a romantic at heart must have interesting thoughts. Anyway, for me the most interesting question is why, why did George decide not to write a Sandor's POV chapter? Any thoughts? I think it's for precisely the reasons you mentioned: (a) to maintain the subtlety of SanSan, and (b) because Sandor is already so much of a straight-shooter. There really is very little guesswork one has to do when it comes to him, at least compared to Sansa anyway, LOL. Sandor volunteers a lot of info; he has nothing to hide (except the truth of his burns), and he takes pride in the fact that he is honest about who he is. But it's precisely "who he is" that is the crux of his character arc at the moment. Everything he has ever known about himself is being called into question and turned on its head. That is what would make a POV chapter now -- as opposed to in the first 3 books or post-QI recovery -- that would be so interesting. To get a glimpse of that transition and struggle to regain his true identity. And considering Sansa is currently experiencing her own identity crisis, this peek inside of Sandor's own struggle with it could be crucial later on...
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