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Post by katie on Mar 24, 2015 5:27:30 GMT
Does Sandor really believe that Arya wants to kill Sansa? Or that she hates her so much? The reason I ask is because, if Sandor really does believe that Arya hates Sansa, it would seem kind of pointless to bring Sansa up while he's dying as incentive for Arya to mercy-kill him, no? So many people looove to dismiss that passage in Sandor's death scene as him simply trying to egg on Arya. But if it's true that he really believes that Arya hates Sansa, then that would be a pretty useless tactic, wouldn't it? There are a number of other things he could have brought up instead that would have worked just as well if not better... Like, say, letting her mother die at the Twins (which is actually the last thing Arya says to him, so obviously that was her actual sore spot). Or how he stood there and let them kill her father. He could have even said something about Robb or Gregor or Gendry or Beric.... Yes, he could have brought up SEVERAL other things that would have had a bigger impact on Arya than the fact that he forced Sansa to sing him a song (oooooooh) and wanted to have sex with her (gaaaasp). Indeed, the narrative bears out that she didn't really have a reaction to his "confession" at all; if anything, she put more emphasis on the fact that he was sobbing as opposed to what he was actually saying...
Thus proving our point all along that Sandor is lamenting what he did to (and didn't do for) Sansa, that this passage has less to do with getting Arya to kill him as it does a dying man's final regrets about the girl that got away.
What do y'all think?
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Post by sillierthings on Mar 24, 2015 15:14:32 GMT
I doubt that he thinks Arya wants to kill Sansa, though Sandor's emotions tend to be powerful and extreme, so maybe he thinks other people are like that too? He is very perceptive, though, and can see there was some kind of rivalry between Arya and Sansa. He would have seen some of it during the trip to King's Landing from Winterfell, I would think, and during those early days around King's Landing--though he may not have paid it much attention. He's trying to normalize his own feelings in a way, i.e. "Of course I want to kill my brother! Doesn't everyone? Hahahahaha, pay no attention to the weeping child behind the Hound's mask."
He's being mean to Arya here, but it's still in a teasing way (dare I say like a big brother? Have you ever had a brother you wanted to kill, Arya? Huh, Arya? Let me lean a little closer and really twist the knife). So, I'm doubtful that his death scene was about Arya and Sansa's relationship. I would doubt that he's even meant to be thinking that clearly here. I'm willing to say that yes, he did want Arya to kill him, but I agree that his final words about Sansa had very little to do with Arya at all. Sansa was on his mind. He tried to get Arya to kill him with the Mycah comment--that's where he goes when he's trying to goad Arya-- which made him think about the other terrible thing that weighs on his conscious--not helping Sansa, taking her song.
I think you have pointed out recently that Sandor takes care of Arya BECAUSE of Sansa, not just because he roams Westeros being the savior of little girls. Everything he does with or for Arya is tied up in his feelings/regrets over Sansa, and yes, the fact that Arya does not even seem to recognize what all this talk of Sansa is about shows that it likely was not said for her benefit, not really.
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Post by katie on Mar 24, 2015 15:31:07 GMT
Yeah, when I first read that quote, it seemed like teasing to me. But like you say, he must have perceived SOME sort of tension between Arya and Sansa; and apparently there was something in her face that gave her away and prompted him to make the comment in the first place. Or course WE know that Arya doesn't want to kill Sansa, but we also know that their relationship wasn't all hunky-dory, so his comment wasn't completely out of line.
But even still, if you really think about it, bringing up Sansa to try to provoke Arya into killing him really was pointless. Especially when the things he said would indeed seem more terrible to HIM than to her. Arya doesn't even believe Sansa sang for him in the first place! And despite Sandor's frequent blabbing about Sansa during their journey together, Arya never really processes what's going on. Even when Polliver brings up Sansa's marriage to Tyrion and the rumor about her casting spells, her reaction is "Huh? No way, she would never do that." (She's only half-right, of course.)
Ironic, for all of Arya's lessons from Syrio about listening and seeing, she seems almost willfully oblivious to Sandor's feelings for Sansa. "You don't know half as much as you think you do." Indeeeeeed!
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Post by sillierthings on Mar 24, 2015 15:44:19 GMT
Arya is only two years younger than Sansa, but she's still very much a child and has never been much interested in the "romance" of songs and such. She has not been dreaming of husbands and babies, so I can see why she does not pick up on the Hound's feelings. It's not like Arya has not had to deal with people praising Sansa excessively to her over the years. I imagine it's in one ear and out the other when she hears "pretty sister," "pretty song." The difference is, of course, that it's THE HOUND and that he's given her a little sweet nickname. Arya's reaction to Sansa getting married shows us just how romanticized a vision of Sansa that SHE has. Sansa would never marry Tyrion! Sansa knows songs, not spells! I tend to think that Arya really does believe that Sansa is living some lemon cake fantasy in King's Landing, being a perfect princess and singing songs, waiting for a true knight. Maybe that's what she needs to believe, but the reality of Sansa's situation is bleeding and sobbing right in her face and she cannot recognize it.
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