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Post by eyesofmist on Mar 8, 2015 21:18:43 GMT
I have seen a very interesting post on Tumblr about the role of Bran Stark in ASoIaF. It is really worth reading. I have always thought Bran will be very important because he was the first character we met,the first POV charcter. I always thought he has the name of Bran after Bran the Builder for a reason and that he would rebuild Winterfell. This post explores his character in depth and offers really good interpretation's for Bran's storyline. Bran Stark and Bran the Builder
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Post by katie on Mar 9, 2015 2:07:10 GMT
Okay, it took me forever to get through that meta, haha, but it's very interesting indeed. As someone who is very much into metaphysical stuff and the "magical" properties of Nature, Bran's storyline appeals to me greatly in that regard. I've mentioned before that if I had to choose between any of the religions from ASOIAF, I'd be more inclined to the old gods for that reason. And all this just makes me even more angry that the TV show has chosen to eliminate Bran completely from Season 5... illustrating once again how utterly clueless D&D are about the most IMPORTANT aspects and people in this story. As you say, Bran is the very first POV character -- THERE IS A REASON FOR THAT. But no, let's show more dragons and boobies and Peter Dinklage being a little badass (eyeroll).
And, of course, Imma bring it back around to SanSan, cuz that's what I do... ;-) This meta makes me think more than ever now that Sansa and Sandor will likely consummate their relationship not only in Winterfell but likely in the godswood. I think that NEEDS to happen -- their relationship is so raw and organic that it makes sense to physically join together near a weirwood, and Sansa will conceive a child right there, in the presence of the old gods, signifying the return of "fertility" to the land. Or maybe that's just me being a hopeless romantic again, heehee. ;-)
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Post by sillierthings on Mar 9, 2015 17:46:11 GMT
I liked this meta very much, and I do believe Bran is the most important Stark in the whole narrative. He's the lynchpin--the story begins with him and I can't help but think everything is revolving around his mystical journey. Bran as the Fisher King makes so much sense not the least reason being that in many versions of the myth, there are two Fisher Kings, the Father who is usually locked in the castle, not seen, but still a presence, connected with the land and often given as a sacrifice to the land, and the Son, who may be the actual fisher, who may recover his own personal fertility at the same time as the land. Don't quote me because there are so many variations, and despite my dabbling and personal reading, I'm in no way an expert or a scholar. Keep in mind, Ned's bones are lost right now. Barbrey Dunstan wants to steal his bones out of revenge. The Fisher King's body should be given to the land to bring back renewal and fertility. The Fisher King's son can then rule. The notion that Bran will live his life, rule Winterfell, and then in his turn be given to the land, become the tree makes sense to me. We'll see what GRRM does with it. And yes, bring it round to Sansan! Sandor has the wounded leg, that's the Fisher King's injury. Depending on the version of the myth, the wound can be healed, fertility restored. He has a stallion who refuses to be gelded on an isle of monks. And I think whenever Sansa and Sandor do get together, it needs to be on the Quiet Isle or under a weirwood, or somewhere sacred. The gods are involved in this relationship, I think. I chatted about this with eyesofmist before, but I was thinking that Sansa singing the hymn to Sandor INSTEAD of the love song he asked for is key to their happy ending (or at least fertile ending, whether it's happy or not, they have to end up making babies. They have to ;P). If she had song Florian and Jonquil or Naerys and her Dragonknight or any of those other songs of romance that all have tragic endings, that would have sealed their fate. It would have ended in tragedy. But she prays and sings to the gods, the Mother's hymn of all things, which creates a relationship even deeper and more compelling. It sanctifies the union in a way. Am I crazy? Maybe, but it feels as if there is more than just a love story here. It's tying into the big theme of return life to the land. Sansa doesn't have magical warg powers. She doesn't play politics. She's not a fighter, but she prays. A lot. Sansa has the power of the gods, both the Seven and the Old Gods. Here's one more tidbit I found that I thought was interesting: www.celtnet.org.uk/gods_m/matres.htmlSo these Celtic mother goddesses generally come in threes, are generally represented by Maiden, Mother and Crone. They are usually fertility goddesses, and what I found most interesting of all: Makes Sansa's dream about puppies in her lap pretty significant to me! One more association with a fertility figure.
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Post by katie on Mar 9, 2015 18:25:15 GMT
I was going to reply to this more extensively but then the new GoT trailer happened and now I've lost my will.....
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Post by sillierthings on Mar 9, 2015 19:08:56 GMT
NOO! Don't let the evil of D & D dissuade you! Puppies in the lap!! PUPPIES IN HER LAP!! The truth is out there! Put on a tin foil hat and join me!
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Post by sillierthings on Mar 9, 2015 19:23:06 GMT
One more bit of evidence that GRRM may have had these Celtic mother goddesses in mind:
Danaerys, the Mother of Dragons, walks around with her left breast hanging out while in Quarth. Seems a weird coincidence.
Also, puppies in Sansa's lap.
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Post by eyesofmist on Mar 10, 2015 0:06:18 GMT
Yes,I agree that both Sansa and Sandor will bring back fertility tho the land. He may be like that sentinel tree in the prologue which was sticky with sap and that Will climbed for protection. While Will used the tall sentinel's protection he was safe,whe he descended he was killed by the Others.
It was the same for Sansa,Sandor saved her from death several times,and he saved her from falling,descending. During the riot they wanted to make fall off her horse,she also wanted to push Joff and probably fall with him to her death,she nearly feel down the Serpentine and she nearly fell from Maeghor's roof. Who prevented her fall so many times? Sandor did,every time.
The sentinel tree was grey and green and there are sentinels in the weirwood too,described as armoured in grey. Tall trees wearing armor even though in a figurative sense? Strange metaphore,very unusual.
Will descended form the tree and like the king in the Baccae you told us about,sillier-things,he fell to his death. The tall tree full of sap is life as opposed to death,just like Sandor steals Sansa from death so many times.
What you say about Ned's bones is fascinating,they must return to Winterfell,but, do you think Bran will heal and be able to have children or do you think the one who will give his sap,his blood and his fertility to restore the Starks' bloodline will be Sandor,by fathering Sansa's child? Remember that the heart tree's sap is dry in Winterfell's godswood,that Ned's blood is dry too because he was killed and in the prologue a very tall sentinel is said to be sticky with sap.
The Hound bled to death next to a tree by the Trident. Rivers represent life and death too and there was also a tree,probably sacred near him. There were also stones,so that was a perfect place for a human/blood sacrifice,like the ones the celts,amongst others made. The Hound bled to death in a sort of ritual sacrifice and he also paid for his sins,I think,and the gods accepted his sacrifice because they spared him through the EB's healing hands. The EB has healing powers that surpass human abilities,there must be something holy or magycal in Sandor's survival. He won a trial by combat,deemed not guilty by Rh'llor and later he was saved on the QI.
That wound he has in medieval tradition is often used to symbolize infertility,but Stranger is an indication that Sandor keeps his virility intact or is on his path to recovering it.
I think he will get over his wounds and father Sansa's child. If he is realted to the Fisher King,then BRan will not have children.
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Post by katie on Mar 10, 2015 0:14:52 GMT
I feel like it can't be coincidence that, here's this guy who openly shunned the gods, who mocked Sansa (and anyone else) for believing in them, and yet where does he end up? In a freaking monastery! Ha! Now, I certainly don't believe he will become a born-again or anything, but I do think he is way more tied to the gods than even he thinks. Sansa, for her part, never stopped believing despite her circumstances and her moments of doubt, so once they reunite, there will be a strong spiritual bond there too, and it will be strengthened either there on the QI or in Winterfell. I'm leaning towards Winterfell only because it seems like the old gods carry more power. And it'll kind of bring Sandor full circle since he has up til now been "touched" by both the Seven and the Red God. Like Sansa, it seems ALL the gods are looking out for him. ;-)
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